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Boz
 08 Oct 2008, 06:12 #45793 Reply To Post
Many thanks. I have a question about referencing since I have never published anything other than magazine articles.

I will be submitting a book called Watching the Thais, a non fiction book, as one of the 5,000 books to be published by YWO, and I have quoted everyone from Shakespeare to Einstein and a lot of websites in between.

Since obviously many are dead and the others are practically un-contactable is this going to be a problem for me, or can I just reference it all in the bibliography section and/or Acknowledgments page and leave it at that?

Hope you can answer this one as I am getting stressed out about it.

many thanks

Boz
LTMS1479CSP
 08 Oct 2008, 12:15 #45823 Reply To Post
Hi Boz

PS to my reply in the last message to you on another string, If someone is dead I believe it is ok to quote their work after they've been dead 70 years. Just check on it yourself to be sure. Look in The Writers and Artists Year Book in your library or get a copy from your local book shop. It is a very useful book.

Good luck with your research on this. I wonder if you could contact someone else who has written a book in the same genre for advice too.

Catherine

MLT
 08 Oct 2008, 20:18 #45887 Reply To Post
Quote: LTMS1479CSP, Wednesday, 8 Oct 2008 12:15
Hi Boz

Look in The Writers and Artists Year Book in your library or get a copy from your local book shop. It is a very useful book.



This might be difficult for you if you live abroad. Instead, go to the website of the Society of Authors. There you will find a Quick Guide to Permissions. That should answer your questions. If not, e-mail them.

Best of luck

Marjorie
Boz
 09 Oct 2008, 01:08 #45913 Reply To Post
Quote: MLT, Wednesday, 8 Oct 2008 20:18
Quote: LTMS1479CSP, Wednesday, 8 Oct 2008 12:15
Hi Boz

Look in The Writers and Artists Year Book in your library or get a copy from your local book shop. It is a very useful book.



This might be difficult for you if you live abroad. Instead, go to the website of the Society of Authors. There you will find a Quick Guide to Permissions. That should answer your questions. If not, e-mail them.

Best of luck

Marjorie


Hi Marjorie,

many thanks for taking the time to give me the information. I had a look at the site you suggested and it was useful but, unfortunately, it doesn't mention anything about quoting from web pages which is really what I am trying to find out about.

All the other authors quoted in my book are dead, so this is the only real stumbling block. I had thought that since all the material I quoted from was already in the public domain e.g. already posted on websites that it was fair game to use it as long as a mention was given to the author.

I think this still holds true in general but I want to cover the bases just in case it is rejected for copyright infringement by the legal eagles/boffins at YWO.

Anyway, thanks again and good luck with your own project.

Boz
benkelly
 09 Oct 2008, 05:14 #45918 Reply To Post
It is a common misconception that anything on a website is 'in the public domain'. It absolutely isn't and is under copyright. As an author, you would need to contact the people behind the words before you use them, either that are carefully paraphrase.

Given YWO are publishing 5000 books, I doubt they will be checking the content and permisions and the contract will most likely put the onus on the author to obtain rights to use information or face any legal consequences.
"Suck it up, say thank you and move on."

Boz
 09 Oct 2008, 05:42 #45920 Reply To Post
Quote: benkelly, Thursday, 9 Oct 2008 05:14
It is a common misconception that anything on a website is 'in the public domain'. It absolutely isn't and is under copyright. As an author, you would need to contact the people behind the words before you use them, either that are carefully paraphrase.

Given YWO are publishing 5000 books, I doubt they will be checking the content and permisions and the contract will most likely put the onus on the author to obtain rights to use information or face any legal consequences.


Hi there,

Thanks for your tuppeny's worth.

yes, I didn't mean to imply that because it was in the public domain, it somehow wasn't copyrighted. What I meant was that it was there to be promulgated, and if it wasn't, it wouldn't have been put out there for public consumption in the first place.

I have since learnt that there's a thing called 'fair dealing' which I found thanks to the other poster, thus:

'Quotations for ‘purposes of criticism or review’: If the quotation can be regarded as ‘fair dealing … for purposes of criticism or review’ (a phrase not defined in the Copyright Act), whether of the work quoted or of another work, you need not ask permission, but must ensure that either in the text itself or in an acknowledgements page you give the title and the author of the work quoted.'

I found this on the Permissions page of The Society of Authors website.

Boz
benkelly
 09 Oct 2008, 05:56 #45921 Reply To Post
No probs, it's just that part of my job is to seek out misuse of my company's website/digital content and people do tend to sound surprised and pull the 'it's out there in the public domain' thing all the time as if the Internet is somehow different to a magazine or book. It's all still published. And all still under copyright - in fact some organisations are ever fiercer guardians of their rights over online content. I will say many are absolutely not.

I almost always allow fair use, but if you have even the slightest doubt, a quick line to the site owners won't hurt. Many will be delighted to assist. Even if they don't reply - or prove impossible to trace - a mail to info@domain would help prove (if push came to shove) that you had attempted to contact them.

'Fair Dealing' tends to apply to reviewers in newspapers and magazines and other websites or academic use - which I guess covers you here.
This post was last edited by benkelly, 09 Oct 2008, 06:30
"Suck it up, say thank you and move on."

mathewferguson
 13 Oct 2008, 03:45 #46187 Reply To Post
Quote: Boz, Wednesday, 8 Oct 2008 06:12
Many thanks. I have a question about referencing since I have never published anything other than magazine articles.

I will be submitting a book called Watching the Thais, a non fiction book, as one of the 5,000 books to be published by YWO, and I have quoted everyone from Shakespeare to Einstein and a lot of websites in between.

Since obviously many are dead and the others are practically un-contactable is this going to be a problem for me, or can I just reference it all in the bibliography section and/or Acknowledgments page and leave it at that?

Hope you can answer this one as I am getting stressed out about it.

many thanks

Boz


I'd go with "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission".

Few people understand copyright, fair use, parody, permission, etc, and the law itself isn't really clear enough to give you either protection or fair warning.

You could, for example, create a character who only ever responds with sentences from Stephen King novels. You would not have to ask permission and there is no copyright problem. Ah, but imagine if you created the same character and they only responded with lines from Beatles songs or from Harry Potter. You'd be sued and the litigators with the deep pockets would win (I mention HP and Beatles because I am aware of litigious copyright behaviour in the past).

You could create a book of quotations and sections of other published work and publish it all without asking anyone for permission. But then it's likely someone would come forward and try to claim your fair use wasn't really fair use or the criticism you may have written wasn't really criticism or perhaps they just want a chunk of your money and so off goes legal action.

Unless you've quoted massive slabs of work, you're probably ok ... unless it is work from notoriously litigious copyright holders.

So, the answer after all that is still it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission. And yes, acknowledgment pages will help a little.

Stargazer
 18 Oct 2008, 12:19 #46774 Reply To Post
So what if we paraphased? Instead of 'She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah' could we use 'I sang some lines about loving people yeah, yeah, yeah'?
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